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How to get all the free speech defenders as far away from me as possible

what's wrong with the free speech?
:angery:

:trebuchet:

I'm far away from America already! Thanks

Trebuchet. What you need is a trebuchet.

Settle down in North Korea that would be lovely 😂

What kind of problem are you having with free speech defenders where you are?

Try telling them you're antifa. For some reason, free speech guys hate the idea of antifascism.

Sending them to Saudi Arabia.

you need to get out more.

Lol, dude, they'll be here in ten minutes to yammer at you. Block them and mock them.

I defend free speech online, but only because I like piracy 😂

I don't think the government has any place to censor, but if communities want to censor, it's perfectly fine with me.

I see no one defending free speech, so what should I say in my stead? I can only say that our samples are unrepresentative.

say you think everyone deserves healthcare or that trans people are valid and then theyll line themselves in a neat little easily blockable row

Lol, dude, they'll be here in ten minutes to yammer at you. Block them and mock them.

More important than free speach is free thought, and you can't have free thought if you are bombarded with lies.

“Classic Liberalism”: co-opting liberal ideals to push the conservative status quo by blindingly applying it to every context

tell them they can’t say the n word

Some of us just defend free speech and accept that there will always be people who we don't agree with. Not condoning white supremacy but shouldn't have to say so for fear of being brow beaten.

go to DPRK

it's because they ARE white supremacists and they hide behind conventions they'd destroy in a minute once they had gotten what they want.

Free speech? Only so they can spew hatred.

Freedom of assembly? Only so they can recruit and show force.

Fascinating how so many people rushed into this thread to prove your point for you.

we have a little bit of discussion on our PR and people are:
- claiming that we are as bad as nazis
- "disagree that everyone who uses Gab supports hate speech"
:eyeroll:

first they came for the [group with controversial opinions], and I did not speak out because I was not a [holder of those controversial opinions]...

Ah, I see. There is much more to the world than online, and free speech is much bigger than white supremacy, in my opinion.

White supremacists are not accepted by western society and are basically irrelevant where free speech is a right. They do exists, and should be condemned. But I support freedom of speech even if some people use it to say stupid or mean things. Suppressing or banning it is far worse for society as a whole.

Stockpile milkshakes

In Germany we don't have that "I'll die to defend your right to call for the extermination of minorities" attitude to free speech that I hear from Americans so often.

Yes, in general, it more ore less boils down to "drop dead already if we don't share the same point of view" here in Germany (regardless of the topic, but especially for everything related to race, politics, belief).

A huge problem with this is that Americans have forgotten what the first amendment actually means.

It protects you from being arrested by the government for what you say. It really doesn't mean we have to tolerate everything anyone says as a society.

Freedom of speech means quite different things for different people, in different languages and different societies.

this is the most annoying part of it all because it isn’t rocket science. and yet there’s a neverending stream of people who need to be shown https://xkcd.com/1357/

the people who are really into free speech sure dont like it when i free speech

Are you the only entertainer here?

Well, what about the people who complain about the imprisonment of journalists and the forced closure of papers in e.g. Turkey or Russia?

I agree with Chomsky on this point. Too many Americans have forgotten *why* free speech is important and argue about the *how* much to tolerate. You tolerate bad ideas in the open until they're defeated. If you don't, they're going to retreat out of the public sphere and do pushups, comeback stronger and harder to defeat. https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/24634-if-we-don-t-believe-in-freedom-of-expression-for-people

Eugen you a mf real one and I'm sorry you gotta deal with the mountain of free speech chuds

I could also say that Germany was one of the primary countries to do that very thing, though.

Those of us that so strongly support that right recognize that blocking speech does not make humanity better. It does not stop someone from being a bigot or a supremacist. It only prevents people from having ideas that go against those that control the speech.

America is the least likely place on Earth to see any group of people exterminated, and part of its foundation is free speech.

they're probably fashy themselves, don't mind them.
As a person who lives in a country where there actually is a huge problem with freedom of speech (not like Orwellian nightmare, but still) I am especially angry at those people because most of them don't even remotely know what it is like to have your freedom of speech taken away.

I could also say that Germany was one of the primary countries to exterminate minorities, though.

Those of us that so strongly support that right recognize that blocking speech does not make humanity better. It does not stop someone from being a bigot or a supremacist. It only prevents people from having ideas that go against those that control the speech.

America is the least likely place on Earth to see any group of people exterminated, and part of its foundation is free speech.

Hardest working person on Mastodon. 👏👏👏💚💚💚

Whoever's running the official Masto project birbsite account has absolutely been my hero as of late, ngl. 💚💚💚

They sure would come off a lot more convincing if they ever came out to defend anyone OTHER white supremacists, sexists, and the like. But no.

@Gargron: I for one defend free speech online but do not defend white supremacists. I can assure you there are others like me.

This is a dumb idea that I see repeated again and again.

Bad ideas grow stronger when in public, not when they are confined to secret underground societies. Secret societies don't have the exposure for their idea to catch on and they have trouble getting recruits.

Things like white supremacy aren't based on facts, but on feelings, so "defeating" them through debate accomplishes nothing, but lets those who feel the same find each other and grow stronger.

What they fail to understand is that while the first amendment of the U.S. Constitution gives them the right to say whatever they want without fear of government retribution, it does not demand that anyone has to listen to them or subscribe to their views. It doesn't state that any platform must cater to them and provide a stage for their rants.

Content warning: Uspol

Sorry I don't agree, free speech Is a human right just like how privacy should be a human right.

This. I have never seen a free speech defender actually defend communists (or anyone else on the left).

tell that to Megan Phelps-Roper and all the people she'd be making feel like shit today, had she not changed her opinion based on conversations with people on Twitter.

Well as the song says when you get yourselves in a pickle you can't get out of and and eat Germany takes over again you will call on America to help and like the good people we are we will help

That is not how free speech works in the US. What a disingenuous statement. Inciting violence is against the law and not protected as free speech.

this makes me imagine a hilariously undiverse saturday morning cartoon hero show

THE FREE SPEECH DEFENDERS

(it's just a bunch of cis white het guys in differently colored suits but they each only complain about one aspect except the leader, Whitestman, who is just the whitest man ever)

(their only powers are money and political office and social capital online)

I call BS at Gargon. Utter nonsense. There is no putting the cat back in the bag. We must have #freeSpeech because technology has made it impossible to stop thoughts from disseminating.

#tankMan

Whilst I understand the sentiments, let's call this what it is: Not "free speech", a Trojan horse and equivocation, but "promotion of oppression", wrapped in the flag of liberal democratic rights that it specifically seeks to deny others:

https://mammouth.cafe/users/dredmorbius/updates/1338

Even though these hateful ideas are not based on fact, there are many who believe they are and could change their mind once they listen to someone expose their ideas.

Here is one example of an individual subscribing to these hateful ideas that was de-radicalized after a watching a debate between Destiny and Lauren Southern: https://youtu.be/sfLa64_zLrU

Tell them that the "free speech" rights in the US Constitution are only to withhold censoring by the government. Even then, it's not absolute because there are Supreme Court precedents that allow exceptions for violent threats and speech that would cause a panic. Nothing in the Constitution forces a private party to allow others a platform on which to broadcast their speech.

Thanks. Bookmarking this thread so I can skim it for new instances to block tomorrow.

you know, in the US it was the ACLU that popularized that mode of thinking, but recently even they have established limits.

How ironic.

"The Nazi Propaganda Ministry took control of all forms of communication in Germany: newspapers, magazines, books, public meetings, and rallies, art, music, movies, and radio.

Viewpoints in any way threatening to Nazi beliefs or to the regime were censored or eliminated from all media"

https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/nazi-propaganda-and-censorship​

It's because, at least in the US, we smacked down the Communications Decency Act back in 1997. I defend free speech in the sense that you should not be arrested or lose civil rights or liberties because of speech on the Internet. It does NOT mean that people have to keep offensive posts up on social media.

I agree with the inverse of everything you just said.

Yes. Thank you. This is one of the big reasons I left Twitter and it is so nice to hear this from you.

I just think the choice should be led to each instance. That's the principle of the Fediverse in my opinion. Or is the discoussion even about the Mastodon software or are you just talking about mastodon.social? I'm not able to follow at this point. 😅

Show them this.

Guess who’s sheltering Chinese Dissidents on the anniversary of Tiananmen Square? Not you.
Image/photo

these are very genralized and broad statements you are making. The world is not black and white, your antifa friends vs the alt right. Do you think most people are either on one extreme or the other? I must doubt that. I don't know many people who support antifa and I don't know many who support the alt right. Those two groups are outliers and probably shouldn't be seen as a force for good in the world. One is just as guilty of racism as the other.

What kinda galaxy brain shit is this. People who want to stop fascists from killing people are just as bad as the fascists who want to kill people? Come on man

antifa is the embodiment of evil. Just as alt right is. If you censor free speech then that is all good and well until someone you don't like is elected, then you want your free speech back. That is how your most famous Vice Chancellor was elected and did the things he did.

Not everyone that defend the freedom to opinion is a fascist.
Just saying.

@poetgrant

When you find yourself aligned with the Nazis ideologically, it's time to revaluate your position: #censorship

"The #Nazi Propaganda Ministry took control of all forms of communication in Germany: newspapers, magazines, books, public meetings, and rallies, art, music, movies, and radio. Viewpoints in any way threatening to Nazi beliefs or to the regime were censored or eliminated from all media"

https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/nazi-propaganda-and-censorship​

China silences people who try to bring bad ideas into the public eye e.g. the Tiananmen Square protests.

Minority has the right to be majority. That is a democratic right.

You bring up white supremecy surviving today as a byproduct of this, but you forget how the majority opinion of many Southern US states only 70 years ago was racial equality is a bad idea, which was toppled peacefully through this right.

China agrees with you. ;P

Minority has the right to be majority. That is a democratic right.

You bring up white supremecy surviving today as a byproduct of free speech, but you disregard how the majority opinion of many Southern US states only 70 years ago was that racial equality is a bad idea — toppled peacefully in the Civil Rights Movement through the right to demonstrate in public.

That's not fair. Take a look at the American Civil Liberties Union or the EFF.

Your comment makes me sad. Leftists and centrists should be louder in defending free speech. It's critical and I refuse to let white supremacists "own" it as an issue.

White supremacists and other fascists would not hesitate to take away free speech from the rest of us anywhere they gained enough power. They're total hypocrites about it. At the same time, most of what they whine about being violated is not even free speech, but their sense of entitlement to an audience.

Maybe it's because Americans unlike you, Germans weren't traumatized with the nazi past and with the memories how it led you to have your shit beaten out of you?
You, Germans, shouldn't impose your traumas on others.

Do you believe "having our shit beaten out of us" was the most important takeaway from our history in the 20th century, and not how a progressive republic turned into a fascist dictatorship that systematically committed acts of genocide within a few years?

I don't give a damn actually. Just don't pretend to be more catholic than the Pope now, it's ludicrous.

I'm not catholic. What are you talking about?

who knew Gargon was a fascist after all.